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Post by brandykins on Feb 12, 2009 9:55:50 GMT
Totally agree with you, Sheelagh and Lyn, I still can't understand why they are accepted. Who lays down the rules as to how breeds look like. It isn't just the GSD that have changed, lots of other breeds have. Someone, somewhere must be responsible!! If it is the breeders, then surely they should be banned - who tells the breeders that their dogs should be born like that?
Perhaps the government should step in and one of their departments lay down the standards and make the breeders adhere to them.
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Post by lynx on Feb 12, 2009 11:30:15 GMT
I would seem that the KC own the standards and all changes are subject to their approval. I copied and pasted this below from the KC's own website.
Kennel Club Breed Standards 17-May-06
The basis of breed shows is the judging of pedigree dogs against the 'Breed Standard', which is a picture in words that describes each breed of pedigree dog. For all licensed breed shows, the Kennel Club Breed Standards must be used for the judging of pedigree dogs.
The Breed Standards are owned by the Kennel Club, and all changes are subject to approval by the Kennel Club General Committee. New Breed Standards, for newly recognised breeds, are drawn up once the breed has become sufficiently established within the UK. Careful research is conducted into the historical background, health and temperament of any new breed before Kennel Club recognition is granted. The Kennel Club currently recognises 210 breeds. Upon recognition, breeds are placed on the Imported Breed Register until they are deemed eligible for transferral to the Breed Register.
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Post by lynx on Feb 12, 2009 11:45:35 GMT
Interestingly enough the picture of GSD they supple for the breeding standards is IMO rather nice www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/library.cgi?action=detail&id=163and quite interesting to read their breed description. It denounces all the weaknesses that are being badly bred into these dogs. I've only copied and pasted the relevant bits, for the complete description click here www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/136German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) Breed Standard 12-May-06
© The Kennel Club - Unauthorised Reproduction of Text and Images Prohibited.
Body Length measured from point of shoulder to point of buttock, slightly exceeding height at withers. Correct ratio 10 to 9 or 8 and a half. Undersized dogs, stunted growth, high-legged dogs, those too heavy or too light in build, over-loaded fronts, too short overall appearance, any feature detracting from reach or endurance of gait, undesirable. Chest deep (45-48 per cent) of height at shoulder, not too broad, brisket long, well developed. Ribs well formed and long; neither barrel-shaped nor too flat; allowing free movement of elbows when gaiting. Relatively short loin. Belly firm, only slightly drawn up. Back between withers and croup, straight, strongly developed, not too long. Overall length achieved by correct angle of well laid shoulders, correct length of croup and hindquarters. The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup. The back is firm, strong and well muscled. Loin broad, strong, well muscled. Weak, soft and roach backs undesirable and should be heavily penalised. Croup slightly sloping and without any break in the topline, merges imperceptibly with the set on of the tail. Short, steep or flat croups highly undesirable.
Hindquarters Overall strong, broad and well muscled, enabling effortless forward propulsion. Upper and lower thigh are approximately of equal length. Hind angulation sufficient if imaginary line dropped from point of buttocks cuts through lower thigh just in front of hock, continuing down slightly in front of hindfeet. Angulations corresponding approximately with front angulation, without over-angulation. See from rear, the hind legs are straight and parallel to each other. The hocks are strong and firm. The rear pasterns are vertical. Any tendency towards over-angulation of hindquarters, weak hocks, cow hocks or sickle hooks, is to be heavily penalised as this reduces firmness and endurance in movement.
Last Updated - January 2009Then to top it all they state on the same page A Breed Standard is the guideline which describes the ideal characteristics, temperament and appearance of a breed and ensures that the breed is fit for function. Absolute soundness is essential. Breeders and judges should at all times be careful to avoid obvious conditions or exaggerations which would be detrimental in any way to the health, welfare or soundness of this breed. From time to time certain conditions or exaggerations may be considered to have the potential to affect dogs in some breeds adversely, and judges and breeders are requested to refer to the Kennel Club website for details of any such current issues. If a feature or quality is desirable it should only be present in the right measure.So if judges are placing the over exaggerated types they are wrong and it should be reported.
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Post by brandykins on Feb 12, 2009 12:22:08 GMT
Great info contained in your posts, Lyn, and if those dogs in their ads are like that - it still makes me wonder how on earth the ones who look deformed were accepted and went on to win prizes. Did the "slip through" - I doubt that. Sure the judges should have questioned the breeders and ask them where they got their breeding standards from. What I mean is how did the breeder arrive at the way those poor GSDs look now - especially compared to the one on that link you provided.
Someone, somewhere, is responsible for the way the breeding standards are regulated (or not regulated) and it is time for a regulator to be appointed. Perhaps if the KC refused the breeders who breed dogs looking like that into their membership and to show the dogs, then perhaps the breeders will be forced to backtrack.
If the KC are putting out pictures like that and then accepting the ones who look as they do today, an enquiry should be made into both sides!! Someone must be responsible for the changes being made to the dogs.
Many thanks, Lyn, for sharing and a Karma for you.
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Post by shadowsmum on Feb 13, 2009 8:07:56 GMT
That's really interesting Lynx! I really can't see how a dog like the modern ones can possibly fit the picture or description they give. Then the judges should be questioned surely someone checks that they are within the standard? It's such a complex issue but something has to be done for these dogs who are for some reason being bred to such extremes that they basically have a terrible quality of life Perhaps with all the boycotts of Crufts happening this year and the resulting reduction in money coming in the KC will start to accept it's responsibilities. Here's hoping
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Post by zombieprincess on Feb 13, 2009 13:20:15 GMT
We will never know why at some point someone thought "Oh yeah this dog that look's like it's half paralysed is all right let's carry on" Why people decided that they would change a handsome noble, wolf like dog into somthing that's practically crawling on it's belly. To me it just reads as another case of Human's thinking they have the right to meddle and have dominion over other creatures. It just make's me very sad.
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